Opinions and a-holes, as they say, everyone has one. However, some (opinions!) are worth more than others.
Why do I say this?
I’ve spent a lot of time on photography forums in the last couple of years. I’m always looking for new ideas, concepts, and…gasp… opinions! Both to share and to receive. I value all of them, even if those opinions simply make me realize how “right” I was to have my own stunted, narrow-minded opinions! 
People on forums (and the internet in general) are more than happy to give you their opinion, especially backed by web-anonymity. And for the newcomer to photography, someone who throws out a lot of artsy-fartsy talk or spews some deep techno-babble about “f/stops” and “exposure triangle” are going to be duly impressed… but should they?
To me the key when you, as a beginner, are getting feedback on the web is this: Compare what they say vs. what they actually do. And by this I mean, do they have the photographic goods to back up the talk? Do they have a readily available online website/portfolio or a flickr account? If so, use it.
Look at the below two examples… who do you want to take your senior picture or portrait?
vs.
You could have modern, young and hip, or get a 2010 version of 1970s/1980s mottled muslin backgrounds and straight-out-of-a-5$-book poses and psychedelic carpet backgrounds. Who do you want advising you on portraiture/photography? To me at least, the answer is obvious. (ps Michelle Moore from the top two images is 26, less than the 28 years the bottom photographer claims to have been a pro!)
Yet, it’s the guy who snapped the bottom two images that styles himself as a “professional” and actually said this once in response to someone asking about using bokeh:
“I’ve been a professional photographer for over 28 years and I have a degree in photography and I have used f/1.8 maybe ten times during that entire time. It seems to me the only people concerned with “bokeh” are amateurs, and internet “pros” who don’t know the difference between a hole in the ground and an aperture. I had never even heard the term bokeh before about 2005 or so and in fact I had to look it up to see what it meant.” Click here for full forum post.
I still laugh when I read that. Because when I initially read such a blunt, arrogant opinion, I thought, “wow, this guy must be good!” then I looked at his work (exemplified by the two shots above) and it made me wonder how many poor beginners (myself included) are, or have been, duped by the “all talk, not photo” old-school crew who believe just because they’ve been taking photos forever and know how to throw around complex principles of lighting and the exposure triangle, that they’ve actually been taking good photos.
A ‘professional’ of 28 years didn’t know what bokeh meant? Really?? I assume beginners don’t know what it means, but a pro of nearly three decades?!? Is this a guy you want to take advice from regarding photography? I’d opine that no, you don’t. Not to mention, that upon a bit of investigation, his “degree” is a certificate from NY Institute of Photography, which is a very good photography course, but is by no means a “degree” as he hoped we understood as backing up his opinion. Luckily for him it’s not a pass/fail course.
Additionally, another “experiencd” photog actually posted this.
“As for me, I am one of the older, more experienced, and most overly-educated photographers in this forum. I joined because I wanted to help people who were just starting out. I try to be gentle with newcomers, firm with those who should be farther in their progress. The only thing I don’t put up with is arrogance. There are, actually, several of us on this forum who know what we are doing and want to help others. You will find you get some good advice and some not so good. Finding someone who can steer you right is one of the treasures of being in this forum.”
Don’t like arrogance huh? Pot, meet kettle. 
This same photog produces such stunning* work such as:
* stunning can be good or bad or very very bad.
Don’t get me wrong, and I hope I don’t come off more arrogant than I actually am, but I don’t expect everyone to be able to produce sellable, award-winning work. Heck, I don’t produce that 99% of the time.
But what I do want, is to remind everyone, especially the beginners out there to take all opinions (mine included!) with a great big grain of salt and see if these “pros” actually can back up their words with results. If you look at someone’s work, and think “uh, that’s crap” then you should probably not listen to their words, especially on issues taste, which is 90% of photography, right? And if said “pro” is mocking you or putting you down by noting “I’ve been a pro forever and don’t even concern myself with those newby things,” do you really want to get their opinion??
So, you’ve been warned. When jokers (like me) tell you what to do, make sure you look at our work to see a) if we can back up our talk, or b) if our photos are the style you want to have/emulate.
Yes, it’s a bit more work, but it’ll put what you read into context that you can better evaluate.
Do you guys care whether the advice you get is backed up by something you feel is “good”?
* And thanks to Robbyp for letting me use his “You Suck” image at the top of this post!
Damn Al! B&L, must have really gotten under your skin! lol!
good post!
heh, pretty impressive considering how thick my skin is!
Very good points here, Al.
Internet anonymity allows people to be a lot more brazen with their opinions and viewpoints. I think that any credible forum would require that members use their real names so that the so-called information and “help” they’re providing can be tied to a reputation.
Personally, I find it hard to take so-called pros seriously who call themselves CanonGuy117.
Hi Anthony,
Thanks! In the end I worry that I come across as arrogant as those I’m bitching about, but it really bothers me to continually hear people with no links to their own work speaking with such authority and eloquence that the young’uns lap it up as if it were gospel.
I just hope people take time to evaluate sources, especially when people speak in absolutes, including me!
Yeah, CanonGuy117 sucks (whoever he is
)
Thanks for the reply.. and add on flickr.. LOOOOVE your photos of the amazon box.. will spend a bit more checking them out!
Thanks Al what you said made feel better about my self, my work, and my art. I bought my first SLR camera 45 years ago, but never developed the inate abilities, and skills. That camera was a Varex IIb, from what was East Germany. I am now trying to get a new career going in a new country. I have asked for constructive criticism, but no response so far. I would value your opinion, my id is RalphSL. Kind regards.
You’re very welcome Ralph. Just remember that though everyone and their mother is on the net, you’re not always going to get what you need right away. Just keep plugging along and people WILL get you some good feedback.
Glad to see the fire hasn’t died out after all these years by the way!
I’ll try to be one of those people!
Thanks for your input on this subject. This blog you made may have saved me from feeling really really bad. Another thing this so called pro also said was “I’m glad you are tough because I’m not pulling any punches”
This so called pro, who only has a handful of photos on flickr and hasn’t done anything photographically that I’d say was worthy also tried to compare himself to Zack Arias, a very established and well known pro in the field.
As my article above says, if you can, check out what the people say vs what they actually do. We can all talk a big game, but can we back it up?
A lot of what you say is correct, but never forget that the best players never make the best coaches…. (and equally the best coaches were never great players)
I would rather have someone articulate and fairly knowledgeable teaching me vs. an idiot savant.
Get my drift? IE Don’t dismiss someones ability in one area with their inability (or should we say disability in this case) in another.
Very very good point. I guess in the end I fully agree. But…
The issue of contention that causes me to dismiss people at times, is the arrogance that exudes from those that “talk the talk” and the intent behind the words.
Words that are harsh, yet constructive, are always welcome. Even if the person doesn’t seem to be able to do what they’re saying. As long as it’s coming from a constructive angle.
Words such as the below, from one such big-talker, are never acceptable, especially when said person “joined because I wanted to help people who were just starting out.”
This is what he said to a self-admitted beginner!:
“I’ve seen your site. Its hard to be taken seriously as a pro when your site is full of rookie mistakes: crooked horizons, underexposed images and mixed lighting, to name a few.”
This was not followed by an constructive help on how said photographer could improve.. it was simply bashing. And said bashing was not backed up by anything I would consider quality photography. This is where I believe the receiver of said words should judge not what is said so much as what’s been done.
Then again, who the hell am I, right?
…and those said words were not even in context of what the OP was asking, but that is another story for another blog.
right
Hello good blog post, i know that this may be a little bit off article nevertheless is the Sigma 180mm f/3.5 EX DG APO HSM Macro Lens any good? i’ve found a few review articles but i wouldn’t like to throw away $500 on it. also are there any high-quality boards which i could participate in photography thanks Chelsea from the the united kingdom…english is not my first language
To be honest, I have no clue. Last time I did macro it was with a 50mm lens with an extension tube. I’d check dpreview and perhaps go to DPS and post in on their boards.
Good luck!
Al,
Thinking about it – unlike sport, photography is one of those few places where you can apply your knowledge and improve your own game.
I suspect our friend suffers from a LOFT problem – Lack Of Fucking Talent.
All the theory in the world cannot help you if your eye just cannot see it.
Heya GT,
Agreed..fully, on both counts.
I think much of the issue is the generation gap. Before digital, there were few doing it, and even fewer doing it well. I have not doubt the person(s) in question are decent, but back then they were far above anyone else. They got praised for it. Many sat on their laurels because of such praise and now that the paradigm is shifting, they’re having a hard time keeping up.
Digital makes it easy to practice and get better and experiment. Those that rest on the praise of 40 years ago will get left behind.. and they just can’t cope.
However, it’s also something I personally fear as I sometimes I see photographs and feel deep inside that I’ll just never ‘see’ things in that way and no matter what knowledge I gain, I’ll just never get there. Hopefully, I’m just limited in THAT specific path, and not in general!
We’ll see.
No, it is not a generation gap, the images are crap and would have been crap 40 years ago.
I would not say it on DPS because of the nature of the forum, but by crikey, I wonder if the guy ever compares his images to others? The lighting and PP work are dreadful.
Reading this made me so happy to see that I’m not the only person who feels this way. I had gotten a lukewarm reception and a somewhat snarky comment about an image that I really liked from one of the posters you mentioned. I don’t expect everyone to like everything that I do so I was fine with the lukewarm reception but the snark was unnecessary. Then when I posted a re-edit of it I got no response. That to me feels like a hit and run. I agree that it’s good to take a look at the source when getting the kinds of remarks you mentioned above.
Heya Suzanne,
)
Yeah, it’s the snark, backed up by the LOFT (see above comment) that gets me. I, too, can handle any negative commentary, even from people with LOFT, but it’s the delivery and intent that counts to me.
I always try to take the negative commentary as if receiving feedback from a client (who is typically someone with LOFT), but it’s always seen as a learning experience to see where someone with a different perspective is coming from. But if a client were to simply say “you suck, do better” with no attempt thought or only intending to inflate their own egos (as some of these guys do).. well, my response might be in kind (depending of course on how much money they’re throwing at me!